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I've been reading on what is the appropriate amount of protein. There are a lot of differing opinions. It appears the recommended minimum is 0.6 g/lb lean body mass. There is some disagreement on this minimum with some saying 0.8 g/lb LBM s as the minimum. The maximum for non-anabolic users is generally agreed upon to be 1.0 g/lb LBM. I've also been listening and reading a lot of the presentations from Dr. Donald Layman. He's a PhD with a specialty on the effects of protein on the body. His recommendation is to have a minimum of 30g of protein with each meal. This is to trigger protein synthesis (muscle building) in the body. The 30g amount is to provide adequate leucine which triggers the synthesis. He also states that any amount greater then 60g per meal does not provide any additional benefit. He also advocates limiting carbs to a max of 120g/day. Here's a podcast he did with Jimmy Moore Dr. Layman podcastOn my personal front, My weight has been increasing. I'm not quite sure why. I have had a few days of overeating due to hunger. I'm going to stay on my current course through Feb and see where I end up. If it gets too bad I may make a correction. I did have my wife measure me with the new calipers. It came out about a quarter of a percent lower so not really a lot of difference between the calipers. Based on my metabolic tracker my metabolism is low. It is coming up but I think the almost 2 years of dieting has taken a toll. Hopefully I can add more muscle and improve it without putting fat back on. It's a little disheartening but not uncommon with prolonged diets or severe calorie restriction. I'm working on a plan for the end of February to try to bring it back up. I'm hoping everyone is having a wonderful day!
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98.9 kg
Lost so far: 6.8 kg.
Still to go: 8.2 kg.
Diet followed: Reasonably Well.
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View Diet Calendar, 02 February 2016:
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1859 kcal
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Fat: 68.79g | Prot: 155.00g | Carbs: 168.97g.
Breakfast: Bananas, Kirkland Signature Master Carve Ham, Bob's Red Mill Potato Starch. Lunch: Now Foods Apple Fiber Powder, Bob's Red Mill Potato Starch, Apples, Butterball 97% Lean Ground Turkey, Prepared Good Seasons Zesty Italian Salad Dressing, Marketside Classic Iceberg Salad. Dinner: Apples, Great Value Frozen Sweet Peas, Trader Joe's Boneless Beef New York Strip Steak. Snacks/Other: Wild Planet Wild Pacific Sardines in Extra Virgin Olive Oil, StarKist Foods Pink Salmon in Water, Broccoli. more...
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Gaining 1.9 kg a Week
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1 to 20 of 24
 Comments
Every diet and expert have different opinions. You doctor could run a full blood panel to see your particular needs.
02 Feb 16 by member: Alnona
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Thanks for posting the info. on Dr. Layman, I listened to the presentation. Am actually using the info. in my near term plan of eating. He seems to stress the importance of getting enough protein fairly early in the day to trigger protein synthesis. In light of that I've decided not to do additional fasting days other than on my two planned low calorie days per week. As for your weight increase I'm sure that's a bit frustrating. Yet the calipers are showing a reduction in body fat so it seems you're headed in the right direction with things. I need to get a better body caliper...what kind/brand are you using?
02 Feb 16 by member: jmb3450
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I read somewhere that in a calorie deficit situation the first thing the body does is cannibalize its own tissue for food and preserve fat for a real emergency.
02 Feb 16 by member: jparlett
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@jmb3450: Protein first thing in the morning has always been a topic with a lot of discussion. Protein will get your metabolism going...cranking up the engine to process the incoming resources into usable energy, losing up to 30% of the protein calories to heat. I also know that many..many people (myself included) have followed the 16:8, and Lean Gains options of skipping breakfast completely, and have seen continued muscle growth. @jparlett in a calorie defecit, your body will use its glucose, fat, and protein stores. It is not all glucose...then all fat...then all protein, it's a percentage of each, with a greater percentage being from glucose initially, as fat is being saved for "Winter"...with no glucose, it must be Winter and therefore fat is used with some protein, however, muscle loss is easily offset with weight-training. Your body has no idea what constitutes a "Real Emergency" other than you have energy incoming, or you need to use the energy you have stored. One thing to consider...people assume muscle loss is a bad thing, not always. Most overweight people with fat percentages in the 30s and 40 percent ranges have excess muscle to go with excess fat, as it takes a lot of muscle to move that much mass around everyday.
02 Feb 16 by member: mahjohn
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@jmb3450 - We got the Slim Guide Skin Fold Caliper. It's spring loaded so I'm hoping to make it a little easier to be consistent. I also use a 7 site test. @mahjohn - I agree that skipping breakfast and IF are controversial. The data is contradictory. As you can surmise Dr. Layman is not in favor of those approaches. My personal standpoint is you should do what works for you.
02 Feb 16 by member: CatHerder
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@jmb3450: I've use the AccuFitness 3000 Calipers for several years and tested quite a few people using 1, 3, and 7 position. Conclusion....for Women, as many positions as possible is best for accuracy, as fat deposits in women vary greatly. For men...just one "Suprailiac Crest" as shown in the link provides high accuracy for testing. Also is a great site..ExRx.net, you can choose either 3 or 7 site...enter in the mm's and get your percentage. A greater number of site locations will introduce greater variability in the readings.
https://accufitness.com/body-fat-calipers/accu-measure-fitness-3000-personal-body-fat-tester
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/BodyComp.html
02 Feb 16 by member: mahjohn
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Thanks for the well wishes. Metabolism affects how your body processes macro-nutrients. Your goals should dictate what fuel you choose. My rule-of-thumb is 1g/1lb LBM (Lean Body Mass) with a steady weight-lifting routine in place. I also eat carbohydrates (about 1g/lb of LBM too) and fat (about 1/4g per LBM). I've been able to increase my muscle mass, reduce fat, and maintain my body weight of about 180 with this diet. This Spring I'm going to drop the numbers to trim up a bit before hitting the pool in the summer. Good luck with your numbers. FS is a great tool to help in this area.
02 Feb 16 by member: BAJennings
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The first thing I do every morning is stretch, go through some martial arts sequences, either some taekwondo forms, tai chi, or yoga postures, then do some light lifting. I try not to eat until afternoon, slamming breakfast and lunch into one meal around 1pm. I'm just a fat guy trying to lose weight and have had a good deal of success doing that and now I'm trying to add some definition, and I think that's coming on pretty well, too, I'm sticking with a low carb/high fat diet throughout. I'm certainly not offering any advice or criticism, just sharing what I've done. Don't discount dynamic tension, that's the foundation of the Charles Atlas program, and something I've used for years.
02 Feb 16 by member: 1point21gigawatts
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Mahjohn and Catherder - thanks for the info. on the calipers, will check them out. @Catherder - yeah, there is lots of data that would seem to conflict and different professional opinions of what it means and how best to apply it. I'm of the same mind as you, research and apply it to our own situations to find what works for us. And there is more than one path to the same end.
02 Feb 16 by member: jmb3450
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I use calipers at home - they are pretty close to what the trainer at the gym does for me. Thanks for the protein info. My LBM is about 120, so .6g X 120 is about 72 grams...hmmm...I hit it the last two days as I have been trying for at least 20% protein per day. We shall see...
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@CatHerder thanks for the link, I hadn't listened to that specific podcast yet.. but I have now.. I feel like I got another tool now to help craft the daily macros and meals, etc... Lots to think about. I think in the end I'm going to end up being anywhere between 225 - 250lbs, maybe as low as 215... In my ever growing need to simply things, I'm going to aim for 220lbs which is exactly 100kg; it'll make things easy to convert. I'm still too far out to become numerically surgical, so aiming for 100g/day and/or 35-40g protein per meal... Going to have to add in a midday snack, not a bad thing though as I just rediscovered pork rinds!!!!!!!!!
03 Feb 16 by member: Frosty Heimdall
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@mahjohn I always appreciate your knowledge and insight. I'm trying to get better educated on how the body functions and how nutrients impact it. @philmck and @Frosty You guys are an inspiration. I was not as heavy as you when I started but I was heavy enough the journey is not easy and you two have shown that it can be done with the right attitude and determination. @HCB Based on Dr. Layman's theories it's best to get the minimum 30g/meal rather than a daily goal. I was just putting out the differing amount I had seen that had some scientific backing.
@jmb3450 I use http://www. free-online-calculator-use. com/ skin-fold-test.html for the skin fold calculation. You do three measurements per site and it uses the average of the three. It also has pictures of the measurement locations on the same page.
03 Feb 16 by member: CatHerder
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@herder I don't know how tall you are. I'm 5' 11" and I believe my maintenance is about 25-2700 calories. Your calories, when you include your 2900ish days, may be taking you close to maintenance. The gain could be water from choices. I've always found the suprailiac to be fairly inconsistent at lower body fat %s, likely because so much of the last weight for men is held on the abdomen. That seems to be how it is for me anyway. I often use a 3 point and it seems to be more reflective of my actual condition. As to protein synthesis, I have read that it slows as we age, so higher protien intake may be necessary as we age to keep pu with the slowed response. I always try to get about 20 grams or so above my lean body mass weight equivalent. ie; lean mass 160, I shoot for 180 gr. You've been losing weight for a long time. I found that really messed with my head. I finally decided to find a maintenance calorie level for a month and eat there just to give everything a rest. It's a good approach too, because you get to see that you can manage it over time. You'll pull this off. It's just a matter of taking the time it takes and trusting yourself. scoobysworkshop. com /body-fat-calculator/ Complete with instructions for men. Also, weightrainer .net/ skinfoldbf. html for men and women.
03 Feb 16 by member: northernmusician
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@northern I'm 6'1" and based on the calculators my maintenance should be in the same ballpark as yours. The issue I have with a single point measurement is I have a lot of fat still covering my abs and on my back. I'm fairly lean on my arms, upper chest and legs. As for protein I shoot for a minimum of 140g/day. I don't worry if I go over. I'm not worried about the weight gain, I'm more concerned with the long term effects of being on calorie restriction when I do go on maintenance. I think it primes a body to be overly efficient at storing fat. My key now is to increase LBM to maintain my metabolic rate. I'm still a work in progress.
03 Feb 16 by member: CatHerder
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2700 calories....wow!...that's just a struggle for me to pound that much food. I know when i'm looking to gain i'm at 3200 - 3500 and can only get that with weight gain shakes of 1200 calories each. I'm typically around 1700 on an average day. Scooby's site and calculation's are really good....
03 Feb 16 by member: mahjohn
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CatHerder & Northern - I've wondered also if being on calorie restriction for so long has affected how my body burns calories. I understand that less body mass overall means fewer calories needed, but beyond that. NM I know you've been doing weights now for a while. I've done more cardio than anything to this point due to my cardiovascular disease but think it's time to focus more on weights and strength. Anyway very interesting and informative discussion here.
03 Feb 16 by member: jmb3450
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@jmb3450, two things...One, cardio is about energy efficiency over an extended period of time. When you look at a sprinter, they are physically muscular and able to generate tremendous power over a short distance, more like a muscle car...foot on the gas, use as much energy as possible to go as fast as possible. However, steady state cardio....same pace over an extended period of time is like a Prius....use as little energy as possible to cover as much distance as possible. If you train for steady state cardio, you are training to use fewer calories. Secondly restricting calories over an extended period of time will slow down how quickly your body will use calories, as it does not know when the famine will be over....it still has to maintain core functions and use stored body fat to make up the shortfall, but its not as efficient as it would like to be.
03 Feb 16 by member: mahjohn
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Thanks Mahjohn, always appreciate your posts. Not to hijack this but what are your thoughts on HIIT as far as calorie burn/metabolism?
03 Feb 16 by member: jmb3450
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Exercise Post-Oxygen Consumption (EPOC) was all the rage about 5 years ago, the theory was that if you worked High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) that your EPOC rate would increase dramatically and you would continue to burn calories at an accelerated rate for the next 24hrs. TurboFire and various other made for TV sales pitches touted its benefits, however, it didn't quite pan out. There is an increase, but not nearly as significant as believed. For calorie burn the order fro best to worst is : Weight Training, HIIT, Steady State Cardio. An example of HIIT would be 15mins on the treadmill....3 min warm up...30sec sprint...2 min at normal jogging speed...30sec sprint...2min jogging, etc.. Steady State Cardio would be 15mins on the same treadmill, all at the jogging speed. The real benefit of HIIT is that you get a much better cardio...heart and lung workout. You train your heart and lung to perform at short intervals at an increasing workload, similar to real life. No one goes out the field to work and does so at a slow steady pace....you have intervals of intense work...with periods of downtime. I'll write a journal entry on how to determine how much cardio is enough... @Catherder...apologies on hijacking :-)
03 Feb 16 by member: mahjohn
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Agree completely on the cardio. Steady state aerobics when compared to weight training shows a net LBM loss over extended periods. There are a lot of joggers out there with the skinny-fat thing going on. They look thin in clothes, but many of them are squishy and soft due to the lack of muscle. There's not much you can do with a true believer though.@jmb. There's no reason you can't get your cardio vascular system taxed by lifting weights. I'm not talking about dancercise or some silly thing; I'm talking about lifting heavy enough and with short enough gaps between sets that you're huffing and puffing in between those sets. May of my sets have one minute gaps, but between exercises (switching from say deadlifts to pulldowns or whatever) I'll give myself the time I need to catch my breath. The benefits of steady state aerobics has been largely overstated and more modern studies, which actually went to the bother of comparing them against the effects of bodybuilding or powerlifting, or weight lifting in general, has show no significant differences between the two styles of exercise other than muscle mass. When you take into consideration that the largest contributor to aging and mortality is linked to a loss of muscle mas, I think we have a clear winner. I agree with Mahjohn completely on Scooby's website. To me it's still one of the best though I believe it is essentially defunct. I really appreciate that he left it up. I especially liked the video he did of how to do leg extensions to ensure knee safety, Being an engineer, he made a video of the motion with the tension coming across an egg as it does with a knee in a leg extensions. Result? Broken egg.
03 Feb 16 by member: northernmusician
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CatHerder's Weight History
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