billruse's Journal, 13 Mar 15

WHAT???!!! You don't want to lose water weight!! http://tinyurl.com/ppjkxbz 

Ahh! I know what you mean Billkruse. I hate it when I've carbed up for just 1 cheat day & spend the next 7 days trying to get it back off. Remember it's just water weight (glycogen) though, you will still be losing fat. Especially if you keep your protein high to avoid muscle mass cannibalism 

Water and glycogen are not the same thing. When you use up glycogen your water weight does go down because its water soluble, and this is how its stored in muscle. You will not cannibalise muscle unless you are extremely stupid eating nothing for weeks and excercsing to the extreme where you are over training. You only need 0.8g of protein for each kg of weight or about 10% of your calories, but most bodybuilders use about 0.8g per pound of weight which is twice as much. So long as its lean protein this is fine, and you can consume anywhere between 10% to 35% of your calories from protien. When a bodybuilder is cutting they might go up to 45% for a short period, but it can put unnessery load on your liver and kidneys. The main concern with billkruse diet is its very high in fat which is not sensible. You do need some fat zero fat diets are also not sensible which is why low fat diets have got such a bad rep. But you need about 20% fat not extremes like 60 to 70% 

I call it water weight (glycogen), because carbs are stored with 3 (to 4) parts water, where as fat is just stored as fat. So 4 lbs of fat is actually 4 lb of fat / fuel that needs to burn back off, where as 4 lbs of carbing up weight = only 1 lb of genuine weight gain / actual fuel that needs to burned back off. For it is using 3 lbs of water to store itself. That's why I'm saying don't panic if you've been carbing up and gained alot of weight, because the body is not capable of gaining that much actual fat from those levels of calories you've just eaten in such a short (24 hr) space of time. To eat enough calories to gain that much weight of actual fat is such a short period of time would probably result is being sick. Even knowing it's not real weight gain (just water) (mostly) it's still a real pain in the rare end (speaking from experience) to get the scales to move back down to pre carbing up weight. Plus it's like 4 days (for me) of near torture (hunger, atkins flu, etc) to get back into ketosis each time lol 

Oh no not another one. Well you have actually lost significant weight on your diet. Has it been high fat all the way through, or just sort term. You also mentioned carbing up, so it is a cyclic one? What symptoms have you experienced despite hunger and flu? Did you have constipation from not getting enough fibre, or headaches? Just curious.  

The cheek! lol! I'm not following any particular plan as such, I'm just eating 60g of net carbs per day to make sure I stay ketogenic. So sometimes I have quite alot of protein, (especially around that female time of month) over 100g a day & sometime quite alot of fat. Fibre's not really an issue for me because I eat things like vegetables (spinach, broccoli, ect), berries (strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, etc, which I add to greek yoghurt or whey isolate protein shakes), nuts, & low carb cakes, biscuits, pizza & bread made from Oat fibre, psyllium husk powder, ground flaxseeds, coconut & almond flour, ect (great recipes on pinterest!). I'm not actually carb cycling, I just take days off for things like celebrations, birthdays, Christmas, Easter, etc (keeps me sane lol). When I go back on a ketogenic diet after my cheat day I find the 3rd to 4th day (24 - 48 hrs) I will start to get a headache & feel ill (Atkins flu). After that (by the 5th day) I feel good again & my hunger has gone to the point where I have to force myself to eat. One of the main reasons I chose a ketogenic (albeit tweaked to my preference) instead of going back to calorie counting, was because I had developed high blood pressure & tested as pre-diabetic. As soon as I started a ketogenic diet it all went away within a month. 

Sorry not intending to be cheeky, its just frustrating to see so many people on these keto style diets and not losing weight or doing so very slowly. You are an exception to this which is why you sparked my interest. I am glad you are getting plenty of fibre, would love to hear about some of your recipes for oat bread. When I talked about cyclic, I was refering to CKD (cyclic keto diet) rather than carb cycling, I guess they are the similar thing roughly, with one focusing on low-carb, and CKD focusing on getting energy from fat.  

Ah! yeah, I tend to watch calories as well as net carbs so it's abit easier (I guess) to keep on losing as I can make sure I'm always in a deficit. Sure! I'll share my oat fibre (must be oat fibre not oat bran) bread recipe with you :-D. I shall post the original & then my tweaked version! :-D. Original Recipe: 1 Egg (0.4 N carbs), 1 tbsp (7g) Ground Flaxseeds (0.1 N carbs), Water 1/4 cup (60 ml), 1/2 tsp Baking Powder, 1 tbsp (15g) Butter (I prefer Ghee), 27g - 30g Oat Fibre (I use NuNaturals Nugrains brand), 1/2 tsp Glucomannan Konjac Powder (optional). Mix together & microwave for 2+ minutes. Round shaped microwave containers can be used for say a pizza base, rectangle shape containers (I use plastic chinese take away containers lol) can be used for slices of bread shapes. Makes 2 slices (when cut in half) this way. My Tweaked Recipe: 50g Liquid Egg Whites, 1 tbsp (7g) Ground Flaxseeds, 1/4 cup Water (4 tbsp or 60ml), 1 tsp (5g) Ghee, 27g (3 tbsp approx) Oat Fibre, 1/2 tsp Baking Powder, 1/2 tsp (2g) Glucomannan Powder (optional), Mix & microwave for 2+ (4 mins for me, might need new microwave? :-/ ). 1 serving makes 2 slices. Total: 216 calories, 2.46 net carbs, 17.5g fat, 9.3g protein, 30.9g fibre. Great for cheese on toast, Peanut butter sandwiches, Tuna mayonnaise sandwich, fried egg sandwich, etc. Yum!  

@Ebivr, Thanks for the recipe. I have tried making bread with all sorts including oatmeal, qunioa flour, and gram flour. But not with much success :( By the way you said fat is stored just as fat which is technically correct, but fat cells are about 90% fat triglycerides, and the rest is cell tissue which does contain water. 

Ah bugger! I gave the wrong nutritional info for my tweaked Oat Fibre bread recipe :-/. I copied it from my food diary & forgot to remove the 30g of Tesco's Finest Brussel Pate I ate with it that day lol. This is the correct nutritional breakdown for my Oat Fibre Bread: (no change to above recipe) 1 serving makes 2 slices. Total: 113 calories, 1.21g net carbs, 7.85g fat, 6.75g protein, 30.9g fibre. It is hard to find a good bread alternative recipe, especially for those low carbing like myself. But for the moment this is one of my favourites. I have another recipe I enjoy too (makes great tasting toast) but it's made with Vital Wheat Gluten & Soya Flour (Which I've been trying to avoid recently). And also isn't as quick to knock up, requiring 2 hours in my bread machine. So I tend to stick to the Oat fibre recipe for convenience sakes. 

Dr Zaks, makes a high protein bread, I guess that could be considered low-carb if you eat less of it ;) http://tinyurl.com/mxg2osq 

flaxseed bread is lovely Giles got a really nice flavour, i have always kept an eye on calories too @Ebivr i'm not of the opinion that you can eat what you want just because its low carb. 

@Drullae, I can imagine, I am getting a lot of flaxseed in my diet at the moment and I like the taste. This oat fibre stuff seems brilliant. Lots of insoluable fibre, with virtually 0 calories. I think @Ebivr knows what she is doing its not so much about eating what you want than modifying recipies to fit your needs. 

The best weight loss happens gradually. Keep with it! 

@Giles when i say about eating what you want i wasn't referring to Ebivr personally but rather the advice given by Zoe Harcombe and others who say that as long as you eat very low carb you do not need to count or even consider the calorie intake. just saying i don't agree with this, calories are always important