John10251's Journal, 10 Jun 21

Another opinion of mine is that the people who really believe in CICO are more focused on working in a donut for breakfast, burger for lunch and pizza for dinner. Not on balancing calories for the week. It's the concept of a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. 

I lost 20 lbs in 6 weeks in keto then 0 for 21/2 months. CICO saved me. I must be in deficit every day to lose. If I go to low my metabolism shuts down & I plateau. When I raise a bit I start losing again. But ALWAYS in a deficit!!!! And try to burn 1& 1/2 times calories I take in. ??? Been workin & I don’t starve myself. Have sugar free gum & candy for when sweet tooth awakens. I’m also diabetic 🍀 

@John10251 thanks for answering , I appreciate it! And yes it does I found this discussion very informative and glad everyone’s sharing their opinions :). 

Ccc, not believing in CICO is not an option if a person is rational and evidence-based. There are plenty of members and people outside FS who have no food restrictions and just eat within their caloric range, yet don't seem to be trying to fit in as much junk as possible. 

Thanks for your input Sheilabutler and Taggie!!!  

John intersting conversation and agree it isn't a debate about one diet over another. LC that is a given that to lose weight you need to eat less than you burn no matter the diet. Who doesnt belive that? My comment was that from my vantage point people generally speak about their way of eating as being keto, lo carb, lo fat, whole foods, med, vegan, vegetarian, dash, etc. Their diets dictate what tyoes of foods they eat and you hear them speak in those terms whether on FS or in daily conversations. They say "I am on Keto","I am a vegan". It is my observation that people who talk about their diet in general terms and just say " I am on CICO" call it that because they dont see themselves following any category and simply just count calories regardless of what they eat. They have no restrictions. That was the point I was trying to make. Whether people balance those calories day to day or weekly is the conversation John brought up.  

Having a surplus day once a week is fine, it's the people who say they are following a 1500 calorie diet without losing but fail to count calories on the weekend which can easily erase their weekly deficit. Also, people eye balling food instead of using a scale. It's pretty easy to forget to log something. They may eat something and say to themselves they will log it ASAP and then forget about it completely. It happens to us all which is why I log right before or as I'm eating it.  

I think that as long as your calories are in the reasonable range as in not super low or high you'll be fine. It's a problem when you rely on a good amount of energy for performance for your goals. If you're so low on calories that it affects your strength as a weight lifter(and in turn muscle retention/gain) or your running distance as a jogger you can expect to not make much progress. Also it will cost you more lean mass lost. And more lean mass lost because of a huge average deficit and a lazy weekend where you ate 6k calories per day will leave you with a worse overall body composition, a lower metabolism, hair loss, terrible sleep, etc. Very low calories to make up for a splurge can also negatively affect your sleep. The restrict binge cycle that the impatient have issues with will have you spinning your wheels while at the same time lowering your metabolism over time causing you to eventually get frustrated and quit. 

I practice cico daily which means I record daily and "try" to be in a deficit but regardless, the numbers tell me the average daily calories for the month so pretty easy to see what I'm taking in and adjusting as needed. Actually the adjusting as needed is not always easy for me, which is why I'm on fs. I do plan on eating low calories and saving calories for later. I think for people who are more controlled are better able to say... We're going out for dinner Friday so I'm having this much less Monday -Thursday. Regardless how it's done, when in a deficit, CICO works. Thankful for that! Nice points, laughing Chevre! ❤️ 

if my body worked by CICO, I would've lost 90 lbs already...take a peak 

Ccc, there are plenty of people who try to argue that they weren't in a deficit and lost weight and celebrity doctors who claim calories are of no importance when it comes to weight loss.  

ccc, I think you are right that many people tend to confuse CICO (a statement about energy balance) and counting calories and say they "are" CICO (??) when what they mean is they are tracking calories. Good points from both DP and Diablo. 

Diablo - makes sense! 👍🏼 

Thanks girls, you both as well are making sense. K.edwards3, use a food scale. 

Btw, the general population really has no idea how much energy they are taking in, and that's not an insult to anyone. My husband's super intelligent and the other day he claimed that croissants were "light" and was shocked when I told him one was easily 250-350 calories depending on the size. It doesn't surprise me now when I see claims about the "magic" of whole foods/paleo/keto/LCHF/HCLF diets and people saying they are eating more than they ever have and losing weight. They're eating a whole papaya or a bowl of cauliflower rice for the fewer calories than a cookie, and just don't realize it. 

LC- I think that many on FS who struggle with saying CICO doesn't work (aside from not counting all their calories correctly) are really putting a lot of stock into the amount of calories that FS says they are burning- which to me, personally, is very high.  

CICO got results for me in the beginning until I took in too little and plateaued when my body thought it was starving. Eating more now, but not losing with CICO the same rate as I was. Foods and TEF and metabolic rates have some influence too. Does Water intake affect weight loss? I don't drink enough of it , although i like my coffee. I like my alcohol on the weekend ....counted of course, but perhaps alcohol affects us. 

CICO is always working, Fiberoptic. If your CI are higher than your CO, it's just working against you. That is, if you're trying to lose. 

DP, I think you are right. I don't pay much attention to the FS activity tracker and what it says I've burned, though I do log my run/dance/walk time and 1/3 of my resistance training for comparison. I don't enter daily activities like standing, cleaning, cooking, and that kind of stuff. The other problem I see is people losing 5lbs in a week and think they've "gained" if some of that comes back - not understanding that what happens over a week or a month matters more and is more accurate, and not believing that water plays a big role in daily weight. 

And some gyms/trainers/fitness programs really don't educate people on how much they are actually expending and advertise stupid stuff. My own gym posted a photo claiming you could burn 700 calories in one of their 45-minute spin classes. Maybe a few people *could* so technically true, but unlikely for the average person who is not going like crazy the whole time, may not even be capable of that kind of performance, and doesn't weigh enough to reach that expenditure even if they're giving it their all. Given that most of the people I see in spin classes are female and 100-160lbs max, I find that kind of ad extremely misleading.