FloridaAngel's Journal, 11 Jan 16

Sorry to hear your pain. Atkins isn't about counting calories or just keeping to 20g carbs a day, even in the induction phase. It's about three things: 1 - Carbs. For sure, the carbs, starting with 20g in induction. However - All 3 editions of the Atkins book I have read clearly insist that 12g - 15g of those measly 20g carbs come from foundation vegetables. That remains throughout the plan, regardless of phase. There is no point looking at 'not net' for your carbs, If your carbs are coming from the right sources you will need to allow for the fibre content and use net carb figures. 2 - Protein. is Moderate. Not high. It should be 1g - 1.5g protein per kilo of Lean Body Mass (LBM) and shared over your meals as equally as possible. This is because excess protein can be broken down into glucose which affects blood sugar. Bottom line of Atkins is about controlling blood sugar and insulin response. 3 - Fat. This forms the remainder of the calorific intake of the food you eat, since carbs and excess protein are pretty much off limits. You need to make sure you eat ENOUGH calories from FAT. If you intentionally reduce your calories without enough fat, and the carbs and protein are also limited, you are sending contrary signal of food scarcity to your body and it will conserve rather than burn your fat stores. After all, why would it burn more than absolutely minimal fat in a state of limited calories. You need to make sure your body is well nourished and in a state of abundant calories (from the right sources). You won't feel hungry - fat curbs hunger, and you will automatically get into fat burning mode because you are not provoking an insulin response from carbs or protein intake. Why is the blood glucose mechanism so vital? Well, when there is insulin produced your body cannot burn fat, insulin inhibits the process. Fat does not affect that and so it's a win win, Plenty calorific signals, so no food deprivation, no blood sugar driven insulin response, body burns fat. Simple. Easy. BUT all this only works if you do ALL THREE THINGS properly!!! If you can't do that, don't even bother trying, you will fail. ~ Also, you may just (thought I doubt it as you have excess weight), you may just be the metabolic type who needs to run on carbs as they have little or no body fat. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing well. 

Wow...thanks for taking the time to explain it. It's really appreciated! I have no excuses, I am healthy and take no meds...dang this weight! If you have a moment can you look at my food log and tell me if anything stands out? (Also...I don't eat meat) 

What a great job you did of explaining Atkins! 

Penlan is my secret researcher. She's keeping me on the straight and narrow. It's working for me (though the first lump to go must have been water). I want confirmation that I'm fat-burning, so I ordered some Bayer Ketostix yesterday. A positive reading will say that I'm burning my excess which is what I want. I've got a lot to burn :) FS has given me a suggested 1800 kcal a day, sometimes I'm a bit over, sometimes under, but it's the net carbs, fat and protein that I'm concentrating on. We're here to support each other, you'll get there :)  

Hiya, yes, I did look at your food log before I commented. I remember from a previous convo that you don't eat meat other than fish and shellfish. The main thing is the lack of veggies and the fact that you apparently don't record everything. If you do record everything, you need to select the button at the bottom of the page which says 'this is everything I ate'. You really, really do need to record absolutely everything and do proper weights, in grams, not 'cups'. Cup measure is fine for liquids but as good as useless for anything else. Too much protein, not enough fat. Not enough veggies. ;) Always happy to help. If you look at my record you will see that even though I upped my kcals and fat from November's figures, my weight loss increased through December and on. And I eat A LOT of veggies!!! The macro count on the summaries is total not net, I have a lot of fibrous food, so the macro is misleading. I don't have potassium or sodium difficulties because I eat lots of leafy veg :D 

Thanks all. I just wish the formatting would allow my spaces in the text, a whole lot of words and no spaces doesn't make for east reading and bullet points. Oh well, as long as you get the drift. That's Atkins in a nutshell. Glad it helped.  

You're the best Penlan! Thanks so much : ) Fresh Start, Fresh Hope : ) 

And truth be told, I don't like veggies at all. I suffer through them...any ideas? Maybe a fiber supplement??? 

what if you hide your veges in smoothies... for instance, fresh spinach, 1 cup. throw it in there... you will not notice a huge difference in taste, just color. :) good luck. 

Not really, there is more to veg than fibre. Lots of micro nutrients, vitamins and minerals. Antioxidants, you name it, all the good stuff is in there. Sure you can add a fibre supplement, such as psyllium husks, but you lose out on so much else. All good nutrition's foundation is good veg. It did give me a wry smile last week when you said you didn't like veggies. A vegetarian who doesn't eat veg. What don't you like about veg? There are ways to help. No veg in your diet is just not Atkins. Either do Atkins and eat veg, even if you don't like them, or don't do Atkins and look at a different way, such as CICO and strict calorie counting. Even a good LCHF diet's food pyramid base is veg. Your call. Be sure whatever diet approach you take to log all you eat. If you eat it, write it.  

Okay thanks...I like celery and cream cheese and will continue the salads and see what happens.  

In the 1972 Atkins Diet Revolution, Chapter 12; "Induction" carbs were restricted to ZERO. And that's the correct way of doing it. No where in that book is it insisted that any grams come from "foundation veggies".  

Hmmm...gets more confusing every second. 

I put my 3oz of meat on a 3 cup salad for great taste and low calorie combo. For full flavor use A-1 sauce, salsa, or Red wine vinegar on most meats. Pickle relish and lemon on fish. Yum!  

No meat! wow... ok... I'm no help then.  

LOL! That's okay, thanks for the support. I love love meat but won't eat it. Those days are over. Maybe the protein powder and unsweetened almond milk is slowing me down... 

Thanks Philmck, I just had that edition delivered today, will read that. These sorts of differences are why I want to read all the editions to see how and where the changes are made, and on what basis. That way I can make my choices based on as much information as I can get my hands on. From the dipping in so far (not a proper read yet) I see references to advising low sodium too, which also changed in later editions. So far I have only read the 2002 and 2010 'New Atkins'. It's been difficult for me to get hold of the 1972 book, I waited weeks for one from the US and they sent me the wrong book. I suppose it depends where one wants to draw the line, i.e. with the original Atkins Diet Revolution, or the various adaptions to the original published by Dr Atkins as time went on, such as the Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution. One must ask why he updated his advice if he didn't feel it was important to make the said changes. For this particular challenge there has been no guidance other than 20g carbs a day, which wouldn't be following the original 1972 induction phase of zero carbs. Given that, and that both editions of Atkins I have read include 20g carbs as part of the induction phase, alongside advice that 12g-15g of those carbs must come from foundation vegetables, I feel ok about giving the advice I did. Bottom line is for us to make our choices based on the information we hold. For me, that includes the updated advice from Dr Atkins. You are doing great on the 1972 version BTW :) 

The induction rules got updated to appease the detractors, induction wasn't called induction in the original version. The current incarnation of the Atkins diet is more like South Beach and other variations of low carb, again, modified to appease the detractors. Weight loss is possible on ALL of them because there's no precise formula for getting into ketosis, some people flip at 50g of carbohydrates, some people have to cut it to zero. I quit associating my way of eating with Atkins because of how much it's been bastardized and the fact that they sell refined and processed products that aren't healthy.  

It could be confusing FloridaAngel, it's why I posted the question of 'How to DO Atkins?' the other day as there are various editions of the book with different advice. Our administrator didn't reply, nor did anyone else, so I offered you what I had read. Get the books and take a read, work out what you want to take from it, or not. You are doing Atkins (or any other diet) for yourself, so arm yourself with the knowledge. Takes time and you are impatient, there are no short cuts really. 

I just realized I probably sounded pretty rude, my apologies. I remember being a member at atkins dot com on their forums had a lady tell me that I "must" eat my "foundation veggies" and it really grinded my gears. I don't have anything against most vegetables, but to say that they must be eaten on Atkins is wholly inaccurate. "Foundation Veggies" (can you tell I hate that phrase?) is a relatively recent construct, added to the diet to make it sound "more healthy". Again, my apologies if I come across as rude on this point, but the people that push the "vegetarian" Atkins are grossly uneducated about the history of their diet.